>>> good evening and thanks for joining us, i'm the host of "az joining us, i'm the host of "az illustrated politics" the weekly illustrated politics" the weeklycommentary on state and national commentary on state and nationalaffairs. affairs. on tonight's show we'll talk to on tonight's show we'll talk to raoul grijalva about immigration raoul grijalva about immigrationreform in the house of reform in the house of representatives and why he wants representatives and why he wantsto delay the approval of the
to delay the approval of the rose mont mine in the mountains. rose mont mine in the mountains.and we'll talk to the "az and we'll talk to the "az illustrated" panel about john illustrated" panel about john mccain's push for a path to mccain's push for a path to citizenship as a part of citizenship as a part of immigration reform. immigration reform. the latest on this year's city the latest on this year's city council elections and much more, council elections and much more,that's all coming up on "az
that's all coming up on "az illustrated politics" but, illustrated politics" but, first, a look at today's top first, a look at today's top stories. stories. >>> the modern streetcar tracks >>> the modern streetcar tracks are all but complete and the are all but complete and the first of the cars has arrived in first of the cars has arrived inthe old pueblo, this morning a the old pueblo, this morning a flatbed trailer delivered the flatbed trailer delivered the first car to tucson and the rest
first car to tucson and the restwill arrive in the coming will arrive in the coming months. months. construction of an underpass for construction of an underpass forthe streetcar on the u of a the streetcar on the u of a campus is still undergoing. campus is still undergoing. arizona congresswoman is back arizona congresswoman is back from a trip to afghanistan from a trip to afghanistan according to a press release according to a press release from her office.
from her office. cinema was part of a cinema was part of a congressional delegation which congressional delegation which met with u.s. troops and afghan met with u.s. troops and afghan government officials. government officials. the trip by the bipartisanship the trip by the bipartisanship delegation lasted for three delegation lasted for three days. days. >>> and the arizona department >>> and the arizona department of transportation is halting
of transportation is halting construction on arizona highways construction on arizona highwaysthis weekend in an effort to this weekend in an effort to help ease traffic for those help ease traffic for those hitting the road for the long hitting the road for the long labor day holiday. labor day holiday. and that's a look at tonight's and that's a look at tonight's headlines. >>> the gang of eight's comprehensive immigration reform comprehensive immigration reformproposal passed out of the
proposal passed out of the senate with bipartisan support senate with bipartisan support earlier this summer but is earlier this summer but is stalled in the u.s. house of stalled in the u.s. house of representatives. representatives. here to talk about the prospects here to talk about the prospectsof immigration reform and other of immigration reform and other issues facing southern arizona, issues facing southern arizona, congressman raul grijalva. congressman raul grijalva. thank you for joining us.
thank you for joining us. the whole immigration reform the whole immigration reform when it passed out of the senate when it passed out of the senatethere was a last-minute there was a last-minute amendment that would put more amendment that would put more fencing on the border and fencing on the border and increase border patrol. increase border patrol. was it overkill? was it overkill? >> total overkill and excessive >> total overkill and excessive and i thought you paid too much.
and i thought you paid too much.you paid all that to get an you paid all that to get an additional three votes so you additional three votes so you went from 11 republicans voting went from 11 republicans voting for it potentially voting to 14. for it potentially voting to 14.so, i don't know if that was so, i don't know if that was worth $35 billion. worth $35 billion. but my point being that that's but my point being that that's been -- that's been now one of been -- that's been now one of the flaws that many of us feel
the flaws that many of us feel the sooner we get into the sooner we get into conference, the more we can ask conference, the more we can ask about accountability and about accountability and efficiency and how you're really efficiency and how you're reallygoing to use that because it is going to use that because it is excessive. excessive. and the price tag it's is and the price tag it's is enormous. enormous. >> and last week the republican
>> and last week the republican national committee led by national committee led by tucsonian bruce ash actually tucsonian bruce ash actually passed a resolution that called passed a resolution that called for no path to citizenship, for no path to citizenship, opposed a path to citizenship on opposed a path to citizenship onanyone who entered the country anyone who entered the country illegally even the dream act illegally even the dream act kids. kids. your thoughts on that?
your thoughts on that? >> talk about shooting yourself, >> talk about shooting yourself,okay? okay? here's -- the republican party here's -- the republican party on this issue has been the on this issue has been the greatest unifying political greatest unifying political force for the latino community force for the latino community in four or five elections. in four or five elections. we're not monolithic, different we're not monolithic, different opinions, different points of
opinions, different points of view politically, but on this view politically, but on this issue there's unity. issue there's unity. and, you know, ash didn't do and, you know, ash didn't do himself or the republican party himself or the republican party any favors with that resolution. any favors with that resolution.you have effectively put you have effectively put yourself in the corner for a yourself in the corner for a generation politically. generation politically. and eventually -- and locked the
and eventually -- and locked thedoor on any future of the door on any future of the republican presidential presence republican presidential presencein the executive office in a in the executive office in a generation. generation. it was politically naive and it was politically naive and stupid when i think -- and i stupid when i think -- and i hate to admit that but the hate to admit that but the republican party does have some republican party does have some ability to inroad into latino
ability to inroad into latino communities. communities. but when you do this but when you do this mean-spirited and marginalize mean-spirited and marginalize that community, you've that community, you've effectively closed the door on effectively closed the door on your ability to communicate. your ability to communicate. >> what your thoughts on just >> what your thoughts on just the prospects of actually the prospects of actually getting a bill passed?
getting a bill passed? we're closing in on another we're closing in on another election year here pretty election year here pretty rapidly. rapidly. >> you asked me a good question >> you asked me a good question on that, and i said my heart was on that, and i said my heart wasoptimistic, my reality was optimistic, my reality was doubtful. doubtful. but three paths to go, we can do but three paths to go, we can dosomething in the house to get to
something in the house to get toconference. conference. we can take one of the bills we can take one of the bills that's lying there, five of that's lying there, five of them, and try to use that to go them, and try to use that to go to conference. to conference. you can put a marker down on a you can put a marker down on a separate bill that is better. separate bill that is better. but at the end of the day, but at the end of the day, boehner has to lift this
boehner has to lift this majority of majority. majority of majority. let the congress work its will let the congress work its will and like he did with violence and like he did with violence against women act, like he did against women act, like he did with the budget resolution last with the budget resolution last year, put it on the floor and year, put it on the floor and 180 democrats and 35 republicans 180 democrats and 35 republicanspassed those two, and i would passed those two, and i would say that that would be the same
say that that would be the same margin on comprehensive reform. margin on comprehensive reform. >> let me shift gears to a local >> let me shift gears to a localissue. issue. today you had a press conference today you had a press conferencewhere you denounced a flyer that where you denounced a flyer thatwent out attacking daniel went out attacking daniel hernandez, the -- gabby giffords hernandez, the -- gabby giffordsintern who became famous for intern who became famous for rushing to his her side when she
rushing to his her side when shewas shot, and he's openly gay, was shot, and he's openly gay, some anti-gay flyers came out some anti-gay flyers came out and you said you thought this and you said you thought this needed an investigation by the needed an investigation by the authorities. authorities. >> yeah. >> yeah. and specifically because of hate and specifically because of hatecrimes and the federal crimes and the federal jurisdiction by the federal
jurisdiction by the federal government, u.s. attorney, fbi, government, u.s. attorney, fbi, et cetera. et cetera. and the reason is not to and the reason is not to overexaggerate what happened, overexaggerate what happened, but there is a cause and effect. but there is a cause and effect.the people that did that flyer, the people that did that flyer, and it's been very difficult to and it's been very difficult to identify the source. identify the source. the only copy that seems to be
the only copy that seems to be available is on huffington post. available is on huffington post.but the fact remains that that but the fact remains that that hateful piece of literature has hateful piece of literature has a cause and an effect. a cause and an effect. and while you have the freedom and while you have the freedom of speech and the first of speech and the first amendment protection to say amendment protection to say those vile things and right those vile things and right those vile things, the hate
those vile things, the hate crimes law says if those have a crimes law says if those have a cause that endangers, threatens, cause that endangers, threatens,jeopardizes the health and jeopardizes the health and safety of individuals or safety of individuals or individuals, then it merits an individuals, then it merits an investigation. investigation. and we think we should go as far and we think we should go as faras if there's a link between as if there's a link between cause and effect and hopefully
cause and effect and hopefully by doing that to make people by doing that to make people think twice. think twice. words have meaning beyond what words have meaning beyond what you think and there is a cause you think and there is a cause and effect and there are and effect and there are protections for individuals from protections for individuals fromthat kind of attack. that kind of attack. >> let me ask you at the ro >> let me ask you at the ro the rosemont mine you said the
the rosemont mine you said the process needs more public input. process needs more public input.why do you think we need more why do you think we need more public input? public input? >> it's a due diligence issue. >> it's a due diligence issue. we felt the forest service was we felt the forest service was rushing to judgment to avoid rushing to judgment to avoid some of the regulatory some of the regulatory requirements that are coming on requirements that are coming on board regarding the study.
board regarding the study. and the depth and the due and the depth and the due diligence of that study. diligence of that study. i said over and over again about i said over and over again aboutrosemont it's about intended and rosemont it's about intended andunintended conducts. unintended conducts. rosemont brags about the rosemont brags about the epicenter of the economic epicenter of the economic revival of all of southern revival of all of southern arizona, they're not.
arizona, they're not. there's a lot of risk here. there's a lot of risk here. let's look at intended and let's look at intended and unintended consequences, 20 unintended consequences, 20 years from now when that mine years from now when that mine closes this community is not closes this community is not looking at a shattered tourism looking at a shattered tourism industry, water depletion we industry, water depletion we can't get back and environmental can't get back and environmentalcontamination we can't clean up.
contamination we can't clean up.due diligence, all consequences due diligence, all consequences on the table. on the table. that's why a full study is that's why a full study is needed. needed. >> a lot of concern this weekend >> a lot of concern this weekendabout whether the obama about whether the obama administration's going to move administration's going to move forward with an attack on syria forward with an attack on syria in the wake of allegations of
in the wake of allegations of chemical weapons use there. chemical weapons use there. your thoughts on what is your thoughts on what is happening in that area? happening in that area? >> very interesting, i signed on >> very interesting, i signed onto a letter with tea party to a letter with tea party colleagues, more conservative colleagues, more conservative republican colleagues, and some republican colleagues, and some of us others on that as well, of us others on that as well, basically asking for one
basically asking for one fundamental thing. fundamental thing. having learned that lesson in having learned that lesson in the bush administration, having the bush administration, having learned that lesson from learned that lesson from vietnam, that the consent to war vietnam, that the consent to warand to major military missions and to major military missions has to come before congress and has to come before congress and has to come before the house of has to come before the house of representatives.
representatives. i think that's the power and i think that's the power and authority. authority. i think the president before he i think the president before he does anything unilateral, does anything unilateral, preemptive, that congress and preemptive, that congress and the representatives there should the representatives there shouldtake their vote, let that debate take their vote, let that debatego in front of the american go in front of the american people and if there is consent
people and if there is consent to go forward, he has it. to go forward, he has it. if there isn't, then it doesn't if there isn't, then it doesn't happen. happen. there's a great deal of risk there's a great deal of risk given the fact that we have given the fact that we have afghanistan, iraq, and the afghanistan, iraq, and the region layered on top of that region layered on top of that over the last 15 years and now over the last 15 years and now some more direct military
some more direct military action. action. as horrific and ugly as killing as horrific and ugly as killing your own people as what happened your own people as what happenedhere and chemical warfare, as here and chemical warfare, as prohibitive as that is and prohibitive as that is and should be, i think the president should be, i think the presidentwould be wise to not only would be wise to not only consult congress but to get the consult congress but to get the consent as well as the
consent as well as the constitution calls for. constitution calls for. >> there's a close vote in the >> there's a close vote in the house last month on whether to house last month on whether to defund the nsa's collection of defund the nsa's collection of phone records following the phone records following the revelations that came out with revelations that came out with edward snowden and the edward snowden and the "guardian's" recording on that. "guardian's" recording on that. you voted in favor of that.
you voted in favor of that. your thoughts on whether or not your thoughts on whether or not that's going to come up for that's going to come up for another vote? another vote? >> i think it will. >> i think it will. i think there's some language i think there's some language discussion that's going on. discussion that's going on. to try to narrow what the to try to narrow what the definition of that is. definition of that is. i think some of the revelations
i think some of the revelations that come out before the vote that come out before the vote that come after it, i think it that come after it, i think it would have been significant more would have been significant morevotes for it. votes for it. and i say that because the and i say that because the sweeps, the disclosures as to sweeps, the disclosures as to the amount and the lack of the amount and the lack of checks and balances, no judicial checks and balances, no judicialreview, no place in which to go,
review, no place in which to go,and have disclosure. and have disclosure. the delicacy between protecting the delicacy between protecting this country from those that this country from those that want to do harm to us and the want to do harm to us and the right and privacy and individual right and privacy and individualrights as american citizens is a rights as american citizens is aconstant delicacy. constant delicacy. nsa, the sweeps, the overall nsa, the sweeps, the overall monitoring i think broached that
monitoring i think broached thatdelicacy and broached that delicacy and broached that balance terribly and that's why balance terribly and that's why i voted the way i did. i voted the way i did. >> got less than a minute left, >> got less than a minute left, but the question on whether or but the question on whether or not the government is facing a not the government is facing a shutdown over the funding of shutdown over the funding of obama care. obama care. your thoughts on how that's
your thoughts on how that's developing with the republicans? developing with the republicans?>> i think that's another -- you >> i think that's another -- youknow, that's another russian know, that's another russian roulette choice that boehner has roulette choice that boehner hasand that the republican party in and that the republican party inthe senate has. the senate has. they want to keep twirling the they want to keep twirling the gun and hoping that there's gun and hoping that there's always an empty chamber,
always an empty chamber, inevitably if they want to push inevitably if they want to push it to that point, i think the it to that point, i think the consequences fiscally for this consequences fiscally for this nation and that party nation and that party politically is going to be politically is going to be devastating. devastating. i don't think they have the will i don't think they have the willto do it. to do it. but if they insist on holding
but if they insist on holding this up, i think the political this up, i think the political consequences are going to turn consequences are going to turn that decision around within that decision around within weeks. weeks. >> all right. >> all right. and that is where we'll have to and that is where we'll have to leave things, thank you so much leave things, thank you so much for coming by, congressman for coming by, congressman grijalva.
grijalva. we'll be right back with our we'll be right back with our panel to discuss the week in panel to discuss the week in review. >>> this is the indiscriminate, inconceivable horror of chemical inconceivable horror of chemicalweapons. weapons. this is what assad did to his this is what assad did to his own people. own people. >> secretary of state john kerry >> secretary of state john kerrydelivered a forceful argument
delivered a forceful argument for taking military action for taking military action against syria. against syria. as punishment for last week's as punishment for last week's attack on syrian civilians. attack on syrian civilians. >> we discussed the options and >> we discussed the options and the consequences of whatever the consequences of whatever action is or isn't taken, two action is or isn't taken, two members of congress were briefed members of congress were briefedon the evidence by the white
on the evidence by the white house. house. >> and we get the perspectives >> and we get the perspectives of "news hour" analyst mark of "news hour" analyst mark shields and david brooks. shields and david brooks. >> then the race to save the >> then the race to save the centuries old sequoias at centuries old sequoias at yosemite national park burns yosemite national park burns miles away. miles away. we have a report from the scene.
we have a report from the scene.>>> we wrap up our look at the >>> we wrap up our look at the legacy of the march on legacy of the march on washington, 50 years on. washington, 50 years on. tonight the long journey of the tonight the long journey of the civil rights movement and its civil rights movement and its unfinished business. unfinished business. >>> and remember the nobel prize >>> and remember the nobel prizewinning poet who died today in winning poet who died today in his native ireland.
his native ireland. >> that's all ahead on tonight's >> that's all ahead on tonight's"news hour." "news hour." >>> the concept of the show is >>> the concept of the show is to go after that week's news in to go after that week's news in arizona. arizona. what were the hot topics, what what were the hot topics, what were the hot stories of the were the hot stories of the week. week. we see this bringing a depth of
we see this bringing a depth of coverage. coverage. we'll take one or two topics and we'll take one or two topics andwe'll get deep into them. we'll get deep into them. my excitement comes from the my excitement comes from the fact that we get to do fact that we get to do journalism like this on tv. journalism like this on tv. >>> earlier this week u.s. >>> earlier this week u.s. senators john mccain and jeff senators john mccain and jeff blake held an immigration town
blake held an immigration town hall in mesa, arizona, in an hall in mesa, arizona, in an effort to build support for the effort to build support for the comprehensive immigration reform comprehensive immigration reformbill that they sponsored and bill that they sponsored and pushed through the senate pushed through the senate earlier this summer. earlier this summer. here to talk about mccain's here to talk about mccain's strong push of the path to strong push of the path to citizenship and other news of
citizenship and other news of the week, don jorgenson, and the week, don jorgenson, and republican strategist jonathan republican strategist jonathan peyton and tucson hispanic peyton and tucson hispanic chamber of commerce, lea marquez chamber of commerce, lea marquezpeterson. peterson. mccain made a strong push for a mccain made a strong push for a path to citizenship, he said it path to citizenship, he said it won't be an easy path, it takes won't be an easy path, it takes 13 years, there are fines, there
13 years, there are fines, thereare fees, but he said at the end are fees, but he said at the endof the day folks deserve the of the day folks deserve the chance to become citizens. chance to become citizens. why do you think there's such why do you think there's such resistance to that in the house resistance to that in the house of representatives? of representatives? >> you know, it really seems to >> you know, it really seems to be the line in the sand that's be the line in the sand that's been drawn by the republican
been drawn by the republican congress or those who are congress or those who are republicans in congress. republicans in congress. what's interesting is mccain what's interesting is mccain stressed that it is 13 years stressed that it is 13 years this pathway to citizenship and this pathway to citizenship and paying back taxes. paying back taxes. there are penalties involved. there are penalties involved. it's not a simple pathway that it's not a simple pathway that people must take and it's
people must take and it's certainly something that's a certainly something that's a priority especially for the priority especially for the latino community who has spoken latino community who has spoken up about the importance of a up about the importance of a pathway to citizenship. pathway to citizenship. senator mccain and blake have senator mccain and blake have been encouraging the business been encouraging the business community with their recent community with their recent meetings throughout the state to
meetings throughout the state toengage with our republican engage with our republican congressmen and talk about the congressmen and talk about the importance of passing importance of passing immigration reform and, you immigration reform and, you know, at least being at the know, at least being at the table in terms of negotiating on table in terms of negotiating onthat pathway or legal status for that pathway or legal status forthe 11 million in the shadows. the 11 million in the shadows. >> jonathan, what do you think
>> jonathan, what do you think is at the root of the resistance is at the root of the resistancehere on the party of republicans here on the party of republicansin the house of representatives? in the house of representatives?>> well, i think that it's >> well, i think that it's been -- it's an age-old question been -- it's an age-old questionwithin the republican party and within the republican party and all across the country about all across the country about granting citizenship for those granting citizenship for those who have come into the country
who have come into the country illegally. illegally. i think what was interesting is i think what was interesting is that -- i mean, the house is a that -- i mean, the house is a co-eke qual branle co-eke qual branle c c co-equal branch of government. co-equal branch of government. but senator flake certainly but senator flake certainly supports this bill with the supports this bill with the pathway to citizenship, but he
pathway to citizenship, but he never said he wouldn't support a never said he wouldn't support ahouse bill that didn't have it house bill that didn't have it in it. in it. and that's an important and that's an important distinction to make. distinction to make. we don't know what will come out we don't know what will come outof the house. of the house. they're certainly going to they're certainly going to debate it and anything that will
debate it and anything that willultimately pass and get the ultimately pass and get the support of the american people support of the american people is going to have to be fully is going to have to be fully debated through our congress. debated through our congress. >> don, how do you feel, you're >> don, how do you feel, you're on the side of john mccain in on the side of john mccain in this particular instance? this particular instance? >> how about that? >> how about that? we are.
we are. i really credit for john mccain i really credit for john mccain standing up strong, i am worried standing up strong, i am worriedthat the senator might that the senator might backtrack. backtrack. >> he is not going to backtrack. >> he is not going to backtrack.he didn't say he wouldn't he didn't say he wouldn't support something that didn't support something that didn't have it in the bill. have it in the bill. that's never been his position.
that's never been his position. >> good. >> good. what i like about what mccain what i like about what mccain said, he really focused on not said, he really focused on not only the realities of the only the realities of the situation as lea pointed out, situation as lea pointed out, but the economic impact as well. but the economic impact as well.if immigration reform were to if immigration reform were to occur just in arizona alone that occur just in arizona alone thatwould bring in an additional
would bring in an additional $616 million and create over $616 million and create over 8,000 jobs in one year. 8,000 jobs in one year. economic experts have also noted economic experts have also notedacross the country that there across the country that there are right now 7 million jobs are right now 7 million jobs that go unfilled because of the that go unfilled because of the lack of skilled workers and that lack of skilled workers and thatnumber's going to double by number's going to double by 2020.
2020. this is an economic solution as this is an economic solution as well as what i believe to be a well as what i believe to be a human rights solution. human rights solution. i applaud the senator for i applaud the senator for supporting it and staying supporting it and staying strong. strong. >> one of the points that john >> one of the points that john mccain makes is that it's mccain makes is that it's important for the republican
important for the republican party in the future in terms of party in the future in terms of winning national elections to winning national elections to pass imgramigration reform billd pass imgramigration reform billdhave a chance at persuading have a chance at persuading latino voters to consider voting latino voters to consider votingrepublican because until you republican because until you level the playing field in his level the playing field in his mind you're not going to be able mind you're not going to be ableto attract the latino voters.
to attract the latino voters. what do you think about that what do you think about that political argument? political argument? >> i just look at the issue on >> i just look at the issue on the surface and i think that the the surface and i think that theopen question for me and for open question for me and for many conservatives has always many conservatives has always been on the enforcement side and been on the enforcement side andexactly how that's really going exactly how that's really going to work out.
to work out. i still think there's an open i still think there's an open debate. debate. there's a lot of questions in there's a lot of questions in the house as to how that's the house as to how that's actually going to play out. actually going to play out. will the money actually be will the money actually be spent. spent. what sort of metrics are going what sort of metrics are going to be met.
to be met. a lot of people feel that they a lot of people feel that they were very open-ended and that were very open-ended and that there wasn't a lot of firm there wasn't a lot of firm commitment. commitment. i was just on the border this i was just on the border this last weekend and talked to last weekend and talked to ranchers that have found six ranchers that have found six people have passed away on their people have passed away on theirranch in the last decade, on one
ranch in the last decade, on oneranch. ranch. there's been a lot of drug there's been a lot of drug trafficking, so there's a lot of trafficking, so there's a lot ofpeople that are concerned with people that are concerned with border security. border security. and they are deeply suspicious and they are deeply suspicious about whether that's actually about whether that's actually going to be accomplished in this going to be accomplished in thisbill or not.
bill or not. and i think that's where the and i think that's where the heartburn is across the board. heartburn is across the board. i think that there's been a lot i think that there's been a lot of promises from washington over of promises from washington overthe years and i think a lot of the years and i think a lot of people don't feel like those people don't feel like those promises have been kept. promises have been kept. >> but do you think mccain's >> but do you think mccain's overstating the need for this in
overstating the need for this interms of the -- terms of the -- >> i think it's shortsighted to >> i think it's shortsighted to say in order to reach out to one say in order to reach out to onegroup we're going to change group we're going to change policy or go against principles policy or go against principles that someone may hold. that someone may hold. i think that we have to debate i think that we have to debate the issue not over politics but the issue not over politics but debate the issue on its merits
debate the issue on its merits and i think that there are and i think that there are really strong questions that really strong questions that have to be asked and have to be have to be asked and have to be debated in the house of debated in the house of representatives how border representatives how border security is going to be security is going to be accomplished. accomplished. and good people can disagree. and good people can disagree. even within a party.
even within a party. the republican party is not a the republican party is not a monolithic party that only monolithic party that only believes in one thing -- believes in one thing -- >> and to that point i actually >> and to that point i actually want to shift gears here and want to shift gears here and that's the senate conservative that's the senate conservative fund headed up by senator jim fund headed up by senator jim demint this week launched a demint this week launched a radio ad targeting jeff flake
radio ad targeting jeff flake that he would not shut down the that he would not shut down the government to force a defunding government to force a defunding of obama care. of obama care. this is kind of a push coming this is kind of a push coming from senators like ted cruz and from senators like ted cruz and marco rubio. marco rubio. senator flake's reaction was senator flake's reaction was very brief. very brief. he said on twitter, oh,
he said on twitter, oh, whatever. whatever. leo, what do you think of what's leo, what do you think of what'sgoing on here with senator going on here with senator flake? flake? >> it's interesting as i read >> it's interesting as i read through the comments also, i through the comments also, i think he felt this was not the think he felt this was not the answer. answer. this was perhaps a political
this was perhaps a political maneuver or placement for maneuver or placement for that -- for obama care. that -- for obama care. and i don't think it was and i don't think it was something that he felt was a something that he felt was a realistic option. realistic option. >> and, don, what do you think >> and, don, what do you think of these threats that are going of these threats that are going on that the government might get on that the government might getshut down over the funding of
shut down over the funding of obama care? obama care? >> well, it's a replay of what >> well, it's a replay of what we've seen pretty much each of we've seen pretty much each of the past year if not each of the past year if not each of president obama's years, where president obama's years, where the republicans are doing the republicans are doing anything to obstruct any measure anything to obstruct any measureof success. of success. it really ties back in to the
it really ties back in to the question about immigration question about immigration reform, too, and that has to do reform, too, and that has to do with the fight within the with the fight within the republican party and whether republican party and whether there's the political courage there's the political courage perhaps on speaker boehner's perhaps on speaker boehner's part to even bring a bill part to even bring a bill forward so there can be debate. forward so there can be debate. and there's talk now that it may
and there's talk now that it maybe delayed. be delayed. it may be pushed into 2014 and it may be pushed into 2014 and then at that point you have then at that point you have those debates within perhaps the those debates within perhaps thesoul of the republican party as soul of the republican party as to whether you have the to whether you have the conservatives or the so-called conservatives or the so-called new republican party made up of new republican party made up of the tea partiers.
the tea partiers. debate's a kind word. debate's a kind word. i suspect it will be more of a i suspect it will be more of a shouting match, but i think shouting match, but i think that's the real danger. that's the real danger. >> speaking to the question you >> speaking to the question you asked jonathan around the asked jonathan around the importance to the latino voter, importance to the latino voter, that's not the only issue that's not the only issue certainly but i think that this
certainly but i think that this makes sense for our nation, the makes sense for our nation, the congressional budget office has congressional budget office has talked about reducing our talked about reducing our federal deficit and i think federal deficit and i think numbers i saw were close to $800 numbers i saw were close to $800billion, $900 billion through billion, $900 billion through 2033. 2033. it shores up our social security it shores up our social securitychallenges.
challenges. you're hearing from i think a you're hearing from i think a bipartisan group business bipartisan group business owners, the latino community and owners, the latino community andothers it's time for federal others it's time for federal immigration reform. immigration reform. we need congress to act. we need congress to act. >> senator mccain was on >> senator mccain was on "morning joe" early this week, "morning joe" early this week, he was defending jeff flake's
he was defending jeff flake's comments -- he was defending comments -- he was defending jeff flake against the targeting jeff flake against the targetinghe was experiencing over this he was experiencing over this advertisement, but also he was advertisement, but also he was saying it's not just obama care saying it's not just obama care that's going to create a fight that's going to create a fight within the republican party, it within the republican party, it is immigration, it is the is immigration, it is the question of whether the country
question of whether the country should be more isolationist. should be more isolationist. what do you think of this sort what do you think of this sort of civil war that john mccain's of civil war that john mccain's describing within the republican describing within the republicanparty? party? >> well, it's interesting >> well, it's interesting because i think that -- let's because i think that -- let's just touch base really quickly just touch base really quickly on what they were saying about
on what they were saying about flake and that, first of all, flake and that, first of all, jeff flake is probably one of jeff flake is probably one of the fiscally conservative the fiscally conservative members of congress in his time members of congress in his time in the house. in the house. he's a co-sponsor of the bill to he's a co-sponsor of the bill torepeal obama care. repeal obama care. i think his feeling is that this i think his feeling is that thismethod was probably not going to
method was probably not going towork and it was ultimately going work and it was ultimately goingto be costing taxpayers more to be costing taxpayers more money. money. but i don't think that almost but i don't think that almost any action he's ever taken has any action he's ever taken has been against obama care and been against obama care and supportching ting the repeal of supportching ting the repeal of care. care. there's a lot of different
there's a lot of different opinions within the republican opinions within the republican party. party. right now you're seeing this right now you're seeing this over syria. over syria. you're seeing there's kind of a you're seeing there's kind of a libertarian streak that's going libertarian streak that's going through the republican party through the republican party that is actually agreeing with that is actually agreeing with people on the other side of the
people on the other side of the aisle about whether we should aisle about whether we should attack in syria. attack in syria. i think having a healthy debate i think having a healthy debate is healthy. is healthy. i don't think any party that is i don't think any party that is monolithic and believes in one monolithic and believes in one thing is really going to be thing is really going to be viable for the long term in viable for the long term in america.
america. so i think that we've always so i think that we've always talked about a big tent. talked about a big tent. this is a big tent. this is a big tent. we have a lot of people who have we have a lot of people who havetheir own opinions and have their own opinions and have their own ways of looking at their own ways of looking at things. things. >> lea, what's your take on this >> lea, what's your take on thisdebate that's going on?
debate that's going on? >> i agree with john, i think it >> i agree with john, i think itis healthy to have the debate. is healthy to have the debate. unlike having one bill passed unlike having one bill passed what we heard recently the house what we heard recently the housemay take it in smaller chunks may take it in smaller chunks and run through different and run through different committees and pieces. committees and pieces. i think the senate bill was a i think the senate bill was a compromise by a bipartisan group
compromise by a bipartisan groupof senators, so it's not of senators, so it's not something that fit both sides of something that fit both sides ofthe aisle perfectly. the aisle perfectly. there's questions that the there's questions that the business community has brought business community has brought up around the visas and quotas up around the visas and quotas and certain industries that and certain industries that perhaps the numbers aren't right perhaps the numbers aren't rightthere exactly as those
there exactly as those industries need. industries need. so, i think there's a lot of so, i think there's a lot of work that can still be done on work that can still be done on the bill, so i'm encouraged to the bill, so i'm encouraged to see the house take it up via see the house take it up via committee. committee. >> i want to touch base on the >> i want to touch base on the referendum effort to block the referendum effort to block the overhaul bill that was passed by
overhaul bill that was passed bythe legislature earlier this the legislature earlier this year. year. folks who are opposed to the folks who are opposed to the bill have until i think early bill have until i think early september to turn in i think september to turn in i think 85,000 valid signatures. 85,000 valid signatures. how is that signature-gathering how is that signature-gathering effort going? effort going? >> the information i received is
>> the information i received isthat it's going well. that it's going well. their expectation of the folks their expectation of the folks that are behind it, and we're that are behind it, and we're talking about the referendum to talking about the referendum to block hb-2305 what's been called block hb-2305 what's been calledvoter suppression acts and such. voter suppression acts and such.it's a high threshold, it's it's a high threshold, it's actually 87,000 by september actually 87,000 by september 12th.
12th. and in any of these kind of and in any of these kind of petition gathering efforts, you petition gathering efforts, you always try to get 35% over always try to get 35% over roughly. roughly. so, we're talking about 115,000 so, we're talking about 115,000 signatures. signatures. that's a pretty daunting task. that's a pretty daunting task. i suspect that from what i i suspect that from what i understand they'll exceed the
understand they'll exceed the 87,000, whether there's enough 87,000, whether there's enough to cover any challenges as such to cover any challenges as such remain to be seen. remain to be seen. >> jonathan, what are you >> jonathan, what are you hearing? hearing? >> well, i question the math. >> well, i question the math. because it's not 30% or 35% of because it's not 30% or 35% of 87,000. 87,000. it's actually that 87,000 needs
it's actually that 87,000 needs to be 70% over larger number. to be 70% over larger number. and right now they said their and right now they said their goal is 120,000 signatures. goal is 120,000 signatures. that doesn't put you at 86,400 that doesn't put you at 86,400 signature threshold. signature threshold. nobody has gotten anything on nobody has gotten anything on the ballot with less than 30%. the ballot with less than 30%. in the last decade. in the last decade. that is under a different
that is under a different standard, which is what they standard, which is what they call substantial compliance. call substantial compliance. they look through the ballots -- they look through the ballots --or they look through the or they look through the signatures to see what complies signatures to see what complies and what doesn't. and what doesn't. well, this is actually for well, this is actually for referral it's a strict referral it's a strict compliance standard which means
compliance standard which means it's a much higher benchmark. it's a much higher benchmark. they said their goal is 120,000. they said their goal is 120,000.i don't think they'll reach the i don't think they'll reach the 120,000. 120,000. i don't think they're going to i don't think they're going to be able to overturn what the be able to overturn what the legislature passed and what the legislature passed and what the governor signed and i think that governor signed and i think thatultimately 2305 will remain the
ultimately 2305 will remain the law of the land in the state of law of the land in the state of arizona. arizona. >> and you've had some concerns >> and you've had some concerns about the hb-2305? about the hb-2305? >> i have. >> i have. and i've seen petition gather r and i've seen petition gather rgatherers and the number of gatherers and the number of signatures you need to be on the signatures you need to be on theballot and the concerns about
ballot and the concerns about the permanent early voting list, the permanent early voting list,whether they'll make their whether they'll make their 120,000 signatures, i mean, who 120,000 signatures, i mean, who knows. knows. but i think that if it does make but i think that if it does makethe ballot, it will be an the ballot, it will be an interesting debate. interesting debate. >> all right. >> all right. and it's coming up soon.
and it's coming up soon. don, we had a primary this week. don, we had a primary this week.it was perhaps the sleepiest it was perhaps the sleepiest primary i have seen in my primary i have seen in my history of covering elections, history of covering elections, not a single contested race but not a single contested race but we're into the main event, the we're into the main event, the general election. general election. two city council races, i think two city council races, i think the one to really watch is karen
the one to really watch is karenulich in a rematch against ulich in a rematch against republican ben bueller garcia. republican ben bueller garcia. he lost by fewer than 200 votes he lost by fewer than 200 votes last time. last time. is this something that the in m is this something that the in mincumbent has to worry about? incumbent has to worry about? >> should take any opponent >> should take any opponent seriously and familiar with this seriously and familiar with thisopponent who she defeated two
opponent who she defeated two years ago, obviously she's years ago, obviously she's prepared. prepared. you described it well as sleepy. you described it well as sleepy.we had to wait a couple of days we had to wait a couple of days for the daily newspaper to know for the daily newspaper to know there was a primary and there was a primary and reporting it. reporting it. so thank you for recognizing so thank you for recognizing that.
that. what i found interesting, it's what i found interesting, it's kind of surprising that there kind of surprising that there three races and you have to three races and you have to wonder about the republican wonder about the republican party when you have a citywide party when you have a citywide election with three open seats election with three open seats and they can only produce one and they can only produce one solid candidate and that is mr. solid candidate and that is mr. bueller garcia.
bueller garcia. it will be the race to focus on. it will be the race to focus on.both candidates are going to max both candidates are going to maxout on the funding and the out on the funding and the match, so that will be there. match, so that will be there. i suspect that from what we've i suspect that from what we've already seen mr. bueller garcias already seen mr. bueller garciashas money coming from out of has money coming from out of state. state. there's independent expenditure
there's independent expenditure committees being formed and a committees being formed and a lot of that money will be shadow lot of that money will be shadowmoney, i'll be curious to see money, i'll be curious to see what is done with that. what is done with that. >> "the tucson republic" >> "the tucson republic" reported the results a week reported the results a week ahead of time. ahead of time. john, your thoughts on whether john, your thoughts on whether garcia can do it this time?
garcia can do it this time? >> he came within 700 votes -- >> he came within 700 votes -- >> 200. >> 200. >> or 200, rather. >> or 200, rather. he came extremely close last he came extremely close last time. time. it certainly wasn't a mandate it certainly wasn't a mandate for karen ulich and all the for karen ulich and all the members of the city council, i members of the city council, i think she has, in my opinion at
think she has, in my opinion at least, and i think the opinion least, and i think the opinion of a lot of people, one of the of a lot of people, one of the most anti-business stances on most anti-business stances on the council and i think that the council and i think that will be a huge issue. will be a huge issue. it already is a huge issue in it already is a huge issue in this race. this race. ben has worked extremely hard. ben has worked extremely hard. i think he's very close to
i think he's very close to qualifying. qualifying. and for his matching funds. and for his matching funds. i think there's a very i think there's a very robustest. robustest. i think they felt that he was i think they felt that he was one of the weakest candidates or one of the weakest candidates orshe was one of the weakest she was one of the weakest candidates in this race and so candidates in this race and so they felt like they would their
they felt like they would their resources in to targeting her. resources in to targeting her. as far as outside money, there's as far as outside money, there'soutside money all over this outside money all over this state. state. the election issue that we the election issue that we talked about, there's been tons talked about, there's been tons of outside washington union of outside washington union money that's come into to fight money that's come into to fight on that effort.
on that effort. i'm sure there's all kinds of i'm sure there's all kinds of interests from all sides, and i interests from all sides, and i would expect that there would be would expect that there would besomething from the democratic something from the democratic side if it gets really close to side if it gets really close to support their candidate as well. support their candidate as well.>> and then unfortunately we're >> and then unfortunately we're out of time, so -- out of time, so -- >> i was going to say i want
>> i was going to say i want folks to check the facts, that folks to check the facts, that part about not supporting part about not supporting business is false. business is false. >> thank you for being here
